Layouts

Submitted by Chessguy on Sun, 06/28/2009 - 12:58.
Tags:

Just was wondering if anyone else thought that layouts are kind of silly. Is changing the gameplay worth doing the building for you? Imo, if a team wants a new base, they should run the risk of making a move, and the server shouldn't do it for them. Also, I don't really think it is worth it just for yucks and grins either. It may be cool to have a new base the first or second time you play a map, but after a while it just gets annoying...

For example, in this shot, the alien base is in the garden room.

I think if the aliens (or humans) want that spot, the should have to fight for it. Think about if the humans wanted to move there, this eliminates a spot for them to possibly build. Basically, if the aliens wanted to be somewhere other than the default location, they should move themselves.

The question also arises about map balance. Perhaps certain maps were designed with favoritism towards aliens or humans on purpose. This often changes as teams advance stages. Like in the base above, once humans reach hs3, it's game over if there's 2 or 3 good luci rushers. \

Anyways, it's not that ALL layouts are complete crap, it's just that I feel that the teams are responsible for the move, and not the server.

"A man can no more diminish God's glory by refusing to worship Him than a lunatic can put out the sun by scribbling the word 'darkness' on the walls of his cell." ~C.S. Lewis

Asvarox
Sun, 06/28/2009 - 13:26 | #2905

It's my layout you bastard

Anyway, saying "look, I have done everything for you, now you can go bite some humans asses" is not their purpose, rather "even if it's not default base spot on this map, it sucks, you should move it as fast as possible sir". You shouldn't refuse to move base from it's "new default" spot just because it's not "old default" spot. If you do refuse, then it's same like not moving base at all from it's built-in default.

Aliens have much more mobile bases than humans, so it's not really big problem for them to move somewhere. Humans moves are more risky. If they start away from best base spot on the map, they must decide if they want to risk and move there or if they want to move to some closer spot that wasn't tested much. For example, in my karith's layout, humans start below elevator thing in stairs room, and aliens start in human default. Human can move to ele room, but it's really risky, because aliens are closer to that spot than they used to be. But they can move to "default aliens' default". Usually it's even more risky than trying 20 mentoses + 4l of cola in you stomach, so games with humans base there were rather rare. Now it's more usual and because of it game is different than others, which makes it quite more funny.

Asvarox (me ) wrote:
D*S already has layouts on several maps (atcs, transit and tremor, right?) but, to be honest - they suck. I hate it when I want to build and I see everything is already built, including tesla and dcc at stage 1.

I'd be great if we have layouts that actually change default base spots. For example, at map tremor, humans start in the hallway between human default front entrance and aliens' default and aliens start in box room. I'd change whole game experience for both "fighters" and builders (everyone (okok almost...) knows how to build base in atcs' human default, but what if they start in the hallway?) in early game stages. And I'm quite certain I'd be really fun, or at least funnier than current layouts.

I heard and noticed that current layouts are quite unbalanced (humans got much stronger base than aliens), so I will fix it soon(TM)

V-Cody
Mon, 07/06/2009 - 22:25 | #2933

I agree with Chess. After awhile the layouts are getting old.

Lecavalier
Mon, 07/13/2009 - 15:06 | #2960

I am only going to make one small comment about these layouts:
They suck and I hate them.

STFU_Theta
Tue, 07/14/2009 - 11:05 | #2979

Maybe layouts should be used 25% of the time just to shake things up every few games.

Jonata
Tue, 07/14/2009 - 23:47 | #2986

Asva did a nice job creating layouts. They are cool. It does makes a difference and adds interest. I will prefer more random layouts than playing the default camptastic layouts.

STFU_Theta
Wed, 07/15/2009 - 08:16 | #2987

As long as they get balanced.

Fallen-
Wed, 07/15/2009 - 22:30 | #2995

This layouts should pop up a message on the start of the map reading BUILD OR DIE! So people build on them. So far I like a lot one on Tremor where the human base is between default human and aliens, so you can choose to go back to default human or move somewhere else. The human base in Alien default is like the garden base at niveus. Try it if you can building on top. Is the best. Also the alien base there is great to be defended by goons, since it has space for long jumps and pounces. We should vote for the ones to keep and remove the bad ones like atcs with alien base on middle top. I don't like that one.

Hurricane
Sat, 07/18/2009 - 18:07 | #3013

Please Get Rid Of These Silly Layouts

- Hurricane

ghostshell
Sun, 07/19/2009 - 02:35 | #3017

i can't help but being obvious... but if you don't like the layouts, then make new ones. that's the only way they can get better.

Kaine
Sat, 09/19/2009 - 02:37 | #3309

@Ghostshell: Try *BUILTIN* I'm told that's an overwhelmingly popular layout. Also, with regard to the unbelieveably shitty ATCS layout where aliens spawn on bunker, and the humans in the hall... please remove it from the server. No one likes it. No one.

The Karith one where humans spawn at the bottom of the big room is really crappy too. As is the Niveus one where humans spawn in an open corner near the default. (You couldn't have at least picked the not-awful corner? Seriously?)

I vote you remove all layouts, tbh. Building is a large part of what makes tremulous what it is... a combination RTS/FPS.

@The casual reader: I don't give a fuck if you don't like me personally, or my method of approaching this issue. Just play a few games with these layouts, and I'm sure you'll find yourself grudgingly agreeing with me.

theharshone
Sat, 09/19/2009 - 02:44 | #3310

Ghost said I should bring this topic back up. Do you think that other people who wouldn't mind making layouts got admin? Or even, make a new level where the only new thing they get is !layoutsave? My main problem is the bunker/hall layout on atcs. At the very least, simply get that layout removed?

Thanks.

Twofacedrat26
Sat, 09/19/2009 - 03:45 | #3311

Well you guys probably all know my views on layouts / DS settings.

Im not going to rant on about how horrible layouts are and how they ruin the game of tremulous. Im just going to say that i would like DS to take out all their layouts since the majority of them suck.

+1 for no layouts.

FedoraMan
Sat, 09/19/2009 - 15:08 | #3314

The layouts need a tad bit of balancing, but they change up the gameplay. I'm rather grateful for that, as playing (literally, I checked) 273 games of ATCS in the past weeks would be far more dull than it is now =P

Lecavalier
Sat, 09/19/2009 - 21:30 | #3317

I propose a poll.

Kaine
Sun, 09/20/2009 - 00:46 | #3319

I second the motion.

Zemmi
Sun, 09/20/2009 - 12:19 | #3320

What would be the options of the poll?

Fallen-
Sun, 09/20/2009 - 22:43 | #3322

1 Layouts
2 No layouts?
3 New layouts?
4 I'm dumb I don't know what's a layout

Jonata
Mon, 09/21/2009 - 07:55 | #3323

LAY OUT NAKED!

Kaine
Thu, 09/24/2009 - 09:19 | #3326

Sooo... this thread has been up since June, many people have weighed in on it, and the issue STILL hasn't been addressed.

It'd be great if we culd resolve this sometime before 1.2 comes out.

Asvarox
Thu, 09/24/2009 - 12:58 | #3328

I have to worry you, but there are no disturbances in The Force concerning this issue

Fallen-
Fri, 09/25/2009 - 08:41 | #3329

I made a small test poll. My first one actually, so why not. How about we vote for the ones to keep and the ones to leave and replace them with new ones.

It would be great that there would be some way to make our own ones, like "my dream human-alien base setup", post them on the forum and by voting we could play them on the server.

I personally have like 3 bases I would love to try someday, but moving it all is hard you know.

mmm... maybe a !goodlayout !badlayout vote could help us decide what to keep and what to drop but then it could be abused, unless is limited to lvl2 and up. Yeah yeah code it myself. Someday.

Kaine
Fri, 09/25/2009 - 10:04 | #3330

I really like Fallen's idea. There's two or three really standard scrim-bases... why don't you just use those as replacement layouts? Most everyone knows them, and they're unhoppable (human) or a saw/luci rush deterrent (aliens).

And if you ask the >< or Pk guys, I know they have a few old scrim bases on maps like Tremor or Niveus that they might be willing to share with you as well.

Ivancool
Fri, 09/25/2009 - 22:36 | #3339

Quote:
and they're unhoppable (human)

Unhoppable? there is no such thing, maybe "Hop resistant". I made 2 examples of "hop resistant" bases in atcs. These bases have some weaknesses, but marauders, goons and adv. goons can't hop the rc without dying. However an average basilisk can take down the rc in seconds.

ATCS "ANTI-HOP EXAMPLE 1"
http://www.filefactory.com/file/a0b9d0e/n/atcshop_dat

ATCS "ANTI-HOP EXAMPLE 2"
http://www.filefactory.com/file/a0b9d0f/n/atcshopr_dat

Defeating Atcs "ANTI-HOP base"
http://www.filefactory.com/file/a0b9d0d/n/antihop_dm_69

Kaine
Sat, 09/26/2009 - 00:40 | #3340

With an all-turret base, that's true. However, if you have moved the RC back, have 2-3 turets that can hit the RC top, and then add in teslas to handle basilisks, you have yourself an entirely unhoppable base. Won't be great against rants, but enterprising individuals can tweak the base as the stages progress.

If you'd like me to build one and provide screenshots, I'd be more than ecstatic.

Kaine
Mon, 10/05/2009 - 17:39 | #3351

Just to clarify... does the "More new layouts" option mean removing the shitty old ones, and putting in some different, better ones?

Or does it mean keep the shitty old ones, and add more shitty new ones?

Player
Sun, 10/11/2009 - 07:51 | #3356

SoH has built and tested a base that is anti hop to everything including basi/advance basi the only problem is at s3 rants can take down the base pretty easily that's why we don't use it at all but it is a real anti hop base

Edit: that's with only rets too (and none of that nooby behind the rc stuff)

User login

Recent Status Updates

Active forum topics

Site Counter

Layouts